CAP 33 - Part 2 - Typing Discussion

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Not sure if we really want to attack stuff, but if we don't need to, I was intending to propose a mono Steel typing. Steel on its own has ten resistances and one immunity, and while its three weaknesses are common, we can always find a way to mitigate Fire and Ground weaknesses somehow if allowed.

To make this post relevant to CAP, this typing happens to tank most of Venomicon, Dragapult, and Kingambit's STABs, as well as merely take neutral from Pult's Shadow Ball. My major concern would be this typing's weakness to Hemogoblin's Bittter Blade and Equilibra's Earth Power, as well as other relevant Fire and Ground users like Great Tusk and Ursaluna. We also need to be careful with Walking Wake's Fire coverage if it runs that.

Meanwhile, we would hit Slowking-Galar, Garganacl, Gholdengo, and Baxcalibur pretty hard, although we still have to watch out for Flamethrower on the first one. We can even check Iron Valiant if we outspeed it due to Steel dishing 2x to Fairy/Fighting. Admittedly, Fire users seem to be much more common than ever thanks to Boots, but I guess something will keep Fire attacks relevant.

Our biggest worry with this is Fire attacks, and pairing with Bug or Grass makes that weakness more severe.
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The are 2 routes to pursue with this style of build. Option 1: we can invest in a wide variety of relevant resists/immunities that puts less emphasis on our defenses during the stats stage. Option 2: we instead aim for a typing that has a broader range of neutral interactions and reinforce it with more generous abilities and defensive stats.

I am more interested in the stat-focused approach since we historically go all-in on typings. Typing is typically first in the stage order, and it is easy to gravitate towards typings that cover a wide variety of offensive and defensive benchmarks we have begun to theorycraft. With all the power budget available to us, we can afford to allocate a large portion of it to typing. Given that we are already out of our comfort zone with a defensive project, I would like to see us take it a step further and explore stat structures we never experiment with.

A mono-typing easily shift focus in this direction. Mono-types can capture a number of relevant resistances while offering the overall neutral interactions that complement a stat-focused approach.

Flying- Flying has always been a stronger defensive typing, but this metagame in particular has been kind to it. The prevalence of fighting-type mons in the tier paired with it having a staple ground immunity makes it a desirable addition for any team structure. Also, compared to past metagames, the presence of Rock, Electric, and Ice type moves is lacking which makes it easier for flying types to thrive. Flying has access to strong stabs that can help us avoid becoming too passive, and we have seen how effective flying types can be with strong utility options (tornadus-t, landorus-t, tomahawk, and venomicon).

Water- Water is another easy pick. Grass and electric mons are equally in shorter supply this metagame. This gives water a huge leg up as a defensive typing. Fire, Water, and Ice are some of the best resists the typing can offer, but that is no surprise given the history of bulky waters as an archetype. However, it is important to note that many of the standard tools the typing uses have significantly lower distribution compared to past generations. While we as a community can bypass these limitations, it is important to minimally recognize how polarizing these types of conversations are.
After some discussion in the Discord, I figured I'd drop my thoughts on some of the typings we've covered. First and foremost, I want to voice my vehement support for Poison/Fairy, Water/Fairy, and Grass/Steel.

Starting off with Poison/Fairy, as it's definitely my favorite typing among the current list. The defensive potential of this type is a perfectly workable and solid middle ground that doesn't exhaust the power budget too extensively early on. Starting off with the typing's weaknesses, the only really prominent weakness Poison/Fairy has is Ground, as Steel and Psychic are not the most prominent attacking types in the meta currently outside of Glowking's Future Sight, Kingambit's Iron Head, and Gholdengo's Make It Rain. The Ground weakness does suck, especially with the prevalence of Spikes, but I honestly feel that this weakness is an important balancing factor. Every mon has to have their weaknesses, and I feel that having Ground as a weakness allows us to allocate more of our power budget into other stages down the line. It's also noteworthy that there's no real dearth of Ground-weak mons that are not only viable but thrive in this meta, like :Kingambit: , :Garganacl: , :Hemogoblin: , :Slowking-Galar: , :Krilowatt: , :Gholdengo: , :Iron Moth: , and others. Put simply, having a ground weakness is not a death knell for a Pokémon, especially not one whose role is primarily that of a wall.

As for the upsides to this typing, there are quite a few. In addition to the incredibly important Dragon immunity, Poison/Fairy matches up really handily into some of the most prominent types in the meta, namely resisting Dark, Fairy, and Fighting while also packing in some neat resistances to Grass and Bug (this one is especially useful when switching into things like U-Turn). This typing alone would allow CAP33 to serve as a check to :Dragapult: , :Kingambit: , :Hemogoblin: (Bitter Blade could smart a bit but this also depends on what level of bulk we will be operating with), :Zamazenta: , :Samurott-Hisui: , :Iron Valiant: , :Enamorus: , :Roaring Moon: , and others. Depending on coverage, this typing would also allow 33 to function as a switch-in to :Baxcalibur: and :Dragonite: while having a potentially decent matchup with :Walking Wake: . Further, I find that one of the most useful qualities of Poison/Fairy as a defensive typing is the number of neutral matchups it has. Five resistances and an immunity is very useful for a defensive Pokémon, but being neutral to key types like Ghost, Fire, Water, and Ice works to 33's favor. With serviceable bulk we turn these neutral matchups into plausible switch-in opportunities and potentially favorable 1v1s in 33's favor.

The final two points I want to highlight in favor of this typing are the neutrality to Stealth Rock and the inability to be poisoned. These are both incredibly desirable qualities for a wall, the former being important for CAP33's ability to switch in on key threats without being put into dangerous damage ranges, and the latter being crucial to 33's longevity as a wall. Being susceptible to Toxic can make or break a wall's ability to function in many matchups, and immunity to this status is something that I consider to be very important for our purposes. Overall, Poison/Fairy is my favorite typing for this process, as I feel that its advantages are so numerous that the unfortunate Ground weakness is rather dwarfed in comparison. With our speed in mind, I also feel that there is ample design space for CAP33 if we proceed with this typing, as outside of Galarian Weezing, Poison/Fairy is rather uncharted territory that we could learn a lot from in practice, especially in crafting a dedicated wall that uses this typing to great effect.

Moving on to another typing I'm quite fond of, I also support Water/Fairy. Simply put, Water/Fairy is one of the best typings in the game, combining two of the best defensive types in Water and Fairy to capitalize on their strengths as a package. The typing possesses an impressive six resistances, including Fire, Water, Ice, Fighting, Dark, and Bug, as well as an immunity to Dragon. While Bug is less of a prominent typing in this meta, the former five types are very prominent offensive types in the meta. These resistances alone would allow CAP33 to function as a stopgap to a wide variety of threats in the meta, blanking the likes of :Kingambit: , :Great Tusk: , :Baxcalibur: , :Walking Wake: , :Samurott-Hisui: , :Ting-Lu: , :Zamazenta: , :Heatran: , :Roaring Moon: , and others. It also would allow 33 to have favorable matchups into other threats like :Arghonaut: , :Equilibra: , :Hemogoblin: , :Dragapult: , and :Cinderace: (barring coverage like Gunk Shot). Water/Fairy is, however, weak to Poison, Electric, and Grass, which means that it has less favorable matchups into meta staples like :Venomicon: , :Slowking-Galar: , :Zapdos: , and :Krilowatt:, as well as the less-common :Rotom-Wash: and :Caribolt: . Despite the unfortunate matchup into :Venomicon: in particular, I don't feel that these unfavorable matchups detract from the typing's potential at all. Rather, I think it gives us some clearly defined checks and counters, which is always important to a good process. Additionally, Water/Fairy also has an expansive list of neutralities, key among them being Ground, Rock, Steel, Ghost, and Fairy. Like with Poison/Fairy, this neutrality to Rocks especially is important for a wall, and the other neutralities are important for preserving the more favorable matchups this typing would allow 33 to have,

Overall, Water/Fairy differentiates itself from Poison/Fairy with its generally stronger defensive profile and its slightly larger list of targets. Where Poison/Fairy's potentially largest limiting factor is its Ground weakness, Water/Fairy trades this weakness for a neutrality (as well as being neutral to both Steel and Psychic, among others) and a weakness to other prominent types in Poison and Electric (and Grass). Unlike Poison/Fairy, Water/Fairy is susceptible to Toxic, which is very important for when considering between the two. I also feel that it's worth noting that as one of the best defensive typings available, Water/Fairy could end up eating into our power budget a bit. That said, it goes without saying that it's an incredibly strong typing and would work well for us here. With our role as a specifically fast wall, it also should be noted that any existing precedent of Water/Fairy as a defensive typing has seen slow to moderate speed, as Tapu Fini isn't the fastest thing in the world and can still be outsped by faster threats even when scarfed. Primarina and Azumarill also serve largely different roles as slightly bulkier offensive threats/setup sweepers, which is not a space we are tapping into here. For this reason, I think there's some unexplored design space here to see what a fast Water/Fairy wall could look like. Therefore, the typing has my support.

Finally, things look a lot different with Grass/Steel. As we've seen in the past with Ferrothorn, Grass/Steel is also one of the best defensive typings in the game. It has an absurd nine resistances and an immunity to Poison at the cost of two weaknesses to Fire and Fighting. While the Fire weakness in particular is the indisputable Achilles heel of this typing—especially with the prevalence of :Hemogoblin: and the viability of mons like :Cinderace: and :Iron Moth:—this rather pales in comparison to the sheer number of threats this typing would allow CAP33 to check. For example, a Grass/Steel CAP33 would stonewall :Slowking-Galar: and :Walking Wake: (without Flamethrower), :Rotom-Wash: , :Toxapex: , and :Krilowatt: . It would also allow for favorable matchups into :Venomicon: , :Dragapult: , :Equilibra: , :Baxcalibur: , :Dragonite: (without coverage like Fire Punch), :Samurott-Hisui: , :Caribolt: , and :Enamorus: , as well as more neutral matchups into other threats like :Kingambit: , :Arghonaut: , :Zapdos: (barring Heat Wave), :Gholdengo: , :Ting-Lu: , :Ursaluna: , etc. In essence, Grass/Steel's remarkable defensive profile creates a pretty extensive list of Pokémon that CAP33 would either counter outright, check on switch-in, or have otherwise favorable or neutral matchups with.

This is at the expense of fearing Fire and Fighting STAB from meta staples like :Hemogoblin: , :Great Tusk: , :Iron Valiant: , :Iron Moth: , :Cinderace: , :Sneasler: , and :Zamazenta: , as well as the odd coverage move. That said, however, the defensive power that Grass/Steel would afford us is undeniable. In addition to its host of resistances, the typing also has six notable neutralities, most notable among them being Ghost, Ice, Dark, and Ground. The immunity to Toxic is also one of the biggest selling points of the typing, which as I've covered above, is an incredible boon for a wall. I also want to echo snake and highlight Grass/Steel's resistance to Stealth Rock. While Bug/Steel is also an impressive typing that has seen some comparison to Grass/Steel, I believe snake said it best: the trade-off of a Fighting weakness for a Rock resistance is massively worth it, to the point that Grass/Steel eclipses Bug/Steel for consideration here. As a final note for this typing, I do want to note that similarly to Water/Fairy, Grass/Steel is simply put, one of the best defensive typings we could hope to give CAP33. As such, its impact on our power budget for later stages is worth considering. Despite this, I do think Grass/Steel is one of the most compelling routes we could take this project, especially as a fast wall. Ferrothorn's precedent of exemplifying the raw defensive potential of Grass/Steel is best viewed within the context of Ferrothorn as being a slower wall and utility mon. We will, of course, be operating within an entirely different echelon of speed than Ferrothorn, which means CAP33's role would play out much differently. Our speed will affect every matchup we have in ways that we haven't even considered yet, and I personally am very intrigued by both the design space this typing would afford us and the process itself. I think there's a lot we can stand to learn from this, as Ferrothorn is our only frame of reference for what the applications of this typing are. So I would love to see what a fast Grass/Steel wall would look like.

Other typings that I support but am less jazzed about are Water/Ground, Dark/Fairy, and Dragon/Fairy, and Water/Flying. I could definitely be swayed to support these types more, so I personally would be interested to see some more discussion on them.

Types that I don't really care for are Fire/Flying, Electric/Flying, Bug/Steel, and other Ground typings (besides Water/Ground). While Fire/Flying undeniably has a unique and strong defensive profile, I personally am just not that interested in the typing, as I feel its design space and resultant process are much less intriguing to me than the other, better options. Electric/Flying falls into a similar issue as well as its inherent competition with Zapdos as a wall/defensive pivot. Bug/Steel I covered earlier, but I just don't see it as being worth it here when Grass/Steel is far superior for our purposes. Finally, for Ground, there are just so many viable Grounds in this meta that I don't feasibly see us breaking any new ground (pun intended) or otherwise not struggling for viability.

This was a long post, so thank you for reading!! I'm really looking forward to the rest of this process and to a successful CAP33!
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Yo, I wanted to drop my support for typings I enjoy for this process.

I quite like this type, so I would like to support slating this type. I'll keep it brief since most of these reasons have been mentioned before. The resist profile here is quite good, with solid matchups into the likes of Great Tusk, Equilibra, Cinderace and Heatran. Not being weak to Fairy, Dark or Dragon is pretty useful too with mons like Hemogoblin and Kingambit around. I think its weaknesses are manageable, given most Electric types seen right now aren't too fast. Garganacl might be a bit of a problem if we cannot hit it hard enough though, and the reliance on Heavy-Duty Boots is a bit annoying as well.

For similar reasons to Water/Flying, I support this typing too. Still being resistant to Fire and Fighting is huge, and while it gives up the immunity to Ground, it does gain a nice Dragon immunity and resistances to Dark and Ice. This lets it be a more aggressive switchin to mons like Walking Wake, Baxcalibur and Greninja, which are all mons that can get out of hand quickly if you let them. Trading a lesser weakness to Electric for a weakness to Grass and Poison seems pretty neutral to me, considering the former is not that common and the latter is mostly on defensive mons. The neutrality to Steel seems okay too since it also mostly on defensive mons, though we might not want to switch into Gholdengo regardless since we don't immediately threaten it with STABs.

I like the broad set of resistances this type combo brings to the table, but being a Poison type not resistant to Fairy is quite a big ask. That said, a Dragon type not being weak to Fairy is pretty good, especially considering we can threaten Hemogoblin back with Poison STAB. I worry a bit into Great Tusk and Equilibra since we probably don't threaten them with much and let them spin for free, and we'll probably need a decent offense to win the matchup with other Dragons like Baxcalibur and Walking Wake but all things considered a pretty solid typing overall. Compared to Poison/Fairy I think I do like the Dragon immunity and Fairy and Dark resistance a bit more than resistances to Fire/Water/Grass and Electric given the mons in the medium-fast speed bracket, but that's mostly just personal preference.

This one I like and support for if were were to go a more offensive-ish route a la Talonflame. The STAB combo is afaik unresisted in the current meta, and the combination has some very annoying STABs to switch into. While it certainly has good defensive matchups into mons like Dragapult, and Hoopa-Unbound, it doesn't resist anything more than these two's STABs. The weakness to Poison is a bit risky, but most Poison type mons do not like to be knocked off so we can sort of mitigate it there down the line. I think the bigger problem here is the Fairy weakness, because a good few mid-fast speed range mons are Fairy type. I think if we were to go with this typing, we'd have to look at increasing our overall bulk to compensate for our worse-than-average defensive profile here.

This typing has some useful resists in Water, Electric, Fairy and Dragon, amongst others. Having only two weaknesses including one quad weakness to Fire is quite alright as well, though both Fire and Fighting are fairly common as coverage so I'm not sure how well we'd hold up in practice. It's one of the few typings that resist both of Krilowatt's STABs without being weak to Ice Beam, and can also hit back hard with STAB of our own, so that gets another point from me.

Other typings I like but don't necessarily support right now:
Electric/Flying -> Zapdos is pretty damn good as a fast wall right now so I'm a bit hesitant on this one
Dragon/Fairy -> Great resist profile but I'd much prefer Water/Fairy, Poison/Fairy or Poison/Dragon here
The following will be an absolute unite of a post.

I’ve been trying to compile a list of types with a similar approach to Quz and while not presentable atm, there are a couple of findings I want to share.

If factoring viability, Move Power and Effective Stats (Base StatsxItemsxAbilitiesxother modifiers) these are the hardest hitting types at the moment in Order strongest to least strong:
Fire, Fighting, Dragon, Ground, Water and Dark
with Flying, Fairy and Poison Types following.
If you want to be checking these types you better resist or are immune to them.

Ground, Fighting and Fire are the most common Coverage types.

Notably Some types also are incredibly Rare as offensive typings.
Normal, Grass and Rock moves are the least used/least powerful, while bug is the most unused STAB.
Arguably being weak or not resisting these types doesn’t immediately mean you are going to matchup bad into the mons using these Types as moves.

That said a second finding was, that not all typings manage to actualize their resists or immunities well, due to how common super effective or really strong neutral coverage is with them.

As an example, while Grass Resists Water and Ground, Water is almost always paired with Fire, Ice or Poison moves, most of them also backed by humongous attacking stats of the likes of Walking Wake or Great Tusk.
This makes it much harder to really be a switch in for these two typings.

Looking at how well types can actualize their resists is pretty important imo. Just checking the type chart and ignoring the most common coverage for moves can result in a skewed result.

As an example given, that we are likely to invest a bunch of evs into speed a Steel/Fairy type while beautifully resisting Baxcaliburs STABs will also have to face an incredibly Powerful Earthquake

For example:
+1 252 Atk Baxcalibur Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 316-372 (87 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
And this also doesn’t factor how bulky Bax, making it difficult to OHKO off weaker attacking stats.

I will no try to analyze a bunch of maybe all submitted typings for how well they end up actualities resists:

This one seems pretty solid overall. The Ground weakness is a bit rough in this meta and could make usually favorable matchups like Baxcalibur or Hemogoblin a tad awkward as well es making it unable to Check fighting Moves from Great Tusk.

Other Fighting types, that can threaten it are fairly rare atm. Choice Band Zama runs Heavy Slam and that’s mostly it.

The Uturn resist seems fairly nice especially at high speeds as no high ranked Pokémon using uturn commonly also runs SE moves against this typing.

The Grass Resist is 100% as the two important grass types can’t meaningfully touch it.

Aside from Tera Hemoglobin, Iron Valiant running Psychic and Hatterene, it’s also great into most Pokémon using Fairy Type Moves.

The Dark type resist ends up being hardest to actualize as Kingambit exists and other Dark type attackers such as Roaring Moon and Colossoil have powerful Steel or Ground type coverage, that will make these matchups iffy.

Lastly the Dragon immunity is a mixed Bag leaning into hard to actualize, as many Dragon types run really powerful ground type coverage often further boosted by set up or items or just really strong Neutral Stabs.
That said with a hefty special defense stat threats such as Walking Wake and Dragapult might end up being solid switch in opportunities.

Overall, this typing pretty much holds its promise as solid defensive option.

This is a more mixed bag than the typing above. It has some very good matchups mostly into the Ground types in the tier.

The Ground immunity means Equilibra and Ting Lu virtually don’t touch it and Tusk can only really knock, while being weak to both stabs.
It’s also solid into most fighting types, though their neutral stabs like moonblast from Valiant or Dira Claw from Sneasler will Hurt. What’s more, Valiant, Zamazenta, and Iron Hands often or always run 4x super effective attacks making it much more shaky in these matchups.

The Matchup into Fire types is broadly solid. None of them currently runs moves that are super effective and some are entirely walled, like Heatran and Astro, while at the same time threatening Super effective STAB.
It still is neutral to Hemogoblins Fairy Moves and any of Iron Moths coverage moves, notably its sludge wave, which without good bulk will be hard to stomach.
It’s Bug and Steel resists are nice to Have though neutrality to Dark and Ghost mean the latter will be harder to actuallize without significant Bulk as Kingambit hits super hard and Gholdengo sometimes even carries SE coverage and has a powerful neutral Shadow Ball.

The biggest issue with actualizing resists for this typing appear with Water Types.
It’s pretty Clear that it can’t reliably deal with Krilowatt and Rotom and while it’s not Weak to Wakes moves, being able to eat a Draco Meteor or even a boosted Dragon Pulse is gonna take a loooot of bulk. Especially since the typing offers nothing to threaten Wake back offensively.

Overall it’s still workable and provides a good base for the rest of the process.
At first Glace this is a weak defensive typing in comparison.
It’s biggest boon is being a Kingambit killer and not having to worry about rocks.
Other than that it’s resists don’t offer much wrt common meta threats.
Resisting Steel doesn’t help much vs Gholdengo, which cap33 would only hit neutrally with likely weak moves and which can hit back with its strong shadow ball, while being immune to status shenanigans. You outright lose to Equilibra if you make a wrong move, which aside from Gambit and Dengo is the strongest common Steel Move User. Other threats Like Roaring Moon that carry Steel coverage also hit at least neutrally with stabs and Coverage from really powerful stats.

This is a highly favored typing and its defensive profile in a vacuum is impressive. Ferrothorn lived mostly off of this incredible resist pallet being able to soft check a good number of threats. Certainly its bulk helped it but the role of its typing cannot be understated.
That said times are a-changing. Ferrothorn is not in SV and if it were it might not sit at the same vr as it was in previous gens.
But let’s dive deeper:

While it resists a whopping 9 typings and is immune to one additional, a lot of these resists might end up hard to actualize, depending on the skilllevel of the user.

Let’s start with a pro argument
It’s best matchup is into Grass types as the four times resist isn’t alleviated by any of their common coverage, making it solid into basically every grass type (unless you see Pyroak or something wild like Oongaboogus).

The stealth rock resist is definitely a good thing but looking at the mons that typically spam Rock type moves, it’s basically only Stratagem, Garganacl and occasionally Zamazenta, the former of which can likely net a KO with its Fire Blast, even after CAP33 switching in on a resisted Rock move, while Zama threatens with STAB fighting moves and Gargs matchup into steel cap33 is still great until we know abilities or what items can be used - though it’s winnable - especially since grass/steel also threatens its most common tera types.
The Strata matchup could be handled via being faster, which definitely is another incentive for choosing the typing.

Normal most commonly coincides with incredibly strong Ground Type Moves, which hit for neutral or - if not that - Fire type coverage, which are even worse.
Offensive utility Great Tusk comfortably two tabs a spread a la Ferrothorn (without defense investment with rapid spin into Close Combat (even without sun boost), Ursaluna Likely has the ability to OHKO with Facade - let’s be real - though even if not, Headlong Rush hits even fully invested Ferro for 60% damage.
Colossoil is no slouch either here
Both Tusk and Luna are also massively bulky, which might impede 33s ability to threaten significant damage fast enough.
Defensive tusk variants are likely possible to handle.
It maybe also has a solid enough matchup into Dragonite, though beating the bulky dragon dance set would require tools outside Typing and the offensive or choice band variant likely carry Fire Punch which still is going to hurt a lot.

Resisting Steel likely means CAP33 with this type could be a solid Equilibra Check as it’s Earthpower - while strong - could probably be shrugged off via recovery.
That said, while it can stomach a Make it rain from Gholdengo, the typing doesn’t immediately offer anything to remotely touch it and common focus blast coverage as well as neutral shadow balls will hurt.
Kingambit is Kingambit and without coverage moves to touch it, it likely beats 33.

Psychic, Poison and Fairy are incredibly tough to actualize as the most common coverage for these types are grass/steels weaknesses in Fire and Fighting.
Psychic is most commonly seen on Gking, and Hatterene which almost always carry fire coverage the former of which you also don’t immediately threaten. The matchup into the occasional Armarouge is - well it’s dire.

Poison again most often happens on Venomicon and Gking the former of which runs Bodypress almost always and does not care about grass/steel defensively and the latter we already discussed.
Other instances of Poison type moves you’d hope to block appear on Sneasler and Cinderace both of which have Super effective high power Stab moves. Both of these matchups could maybe be helped with the right combo of speed and utility though.
Fairy mostly manifests in Iron Valiant and Hemoglobin these days, both of which have super effective stab moves and the latter of which isn’t even weak to steel and resists grass moves.

The electric Resist offers lets you decidedly check Kril and Rotom W. That said it does not check Zapdos at all and likely is switch in fodder. It also cannot properly handle Iron Hands.

And while it does have a good matchup into Kril, Rotom and additionally Samurott H, it might not be able to serve as dedicated water check into the strongest water attacker in the tier, as Walking Wake basically has a third fire type Stab in Sun.

The same goes for the Dragon type resist as a lot of dragons carry fire type moves in their kit like Specs Pult, Band Dragonite or Garchomp or just have monstrously strong neutral moves like Baxcalibur, that might be hard to switch into and take advantage of.

Overall you can see, to actualize the resists there’s a lot of IFS with this typing.
It does have potential with the right combination of stats and utility and will likely feel and be better the higher the skill of its user is, as a lot of its good matchups will come down to making the right predictions/not fall for the predicts of the opponent to properly use all these beautiful resists, since a good amount of Pokémon, that it can possibly deal with are choice locked attackers, that can be exploited with the right reads.

This is an intriguing typing, that offers more through its broad neutral matchup and hard to exploit single weakness.

It matches up Solidly into most Poison types, especially Gking as it resists most of its coverage and hits back super effectively.
The Venom Matchup is harder to make work, but with good utility and a bit of Cane luck it is likely winnable.
Sneasler is tougher than both of these, as it can Uturn with impunity or simply hit with an unresisted Close Combat.

Being a Water type that wants to check Rocks this gen is awkward as Garganacl makes life hard, though with its Rocks resist, this type likely can afford covert cloak, which would make it pretty solid as an answer.
Stratagem on the other hand sometimes still runs Energy Ball, which is aweful.

Being able to resist and hit both Libra and Dengo super effectively, makes its Steel type resist pretty valuable and while it’s neutral to dark, it should be able to check Kingambit, with Ground Stab

The Fire Resis mostly functions well into most Fire types, though both Heatran and Iron Moth will often run Grass type moves and Tera Grass, which will make it harder to check them.

Lastly the Electric immunity is a bit weird. A ground that’s neutral to Water means it’s pretty solid into Kril, though it will struggle to be equally good int Rotom or Zapdos, both of which hit it neutrally with their strongest moves and are unbothered by ground moves.

This typing is probably the most dedicated dragon hunter of them all (Maybe only second to Water/Fairy)
Except for Baxcalibur, which still has super effective STAB and the occasional Iron Head Roaring Moon, no dragon can touch this typing with more than neutral moves and all are being deterred from clicking their Strongest move, as it offers a switch in on an immunity with a highly spammable super effective Fairy move to in the pocket to back up the threat.
It’s an especially good counter to Walking Wake, which simply cannot touch it with its current movesets.

While it’s great into Dragons it suffers into the fire types it should be checking.
Iron Moth threatens Super effective STAB, as does Hemogoblin. Cinderace Carrie’s Gunk Shot on a lot of sets and Heatran resists both the STABs and occasionally runs it’s own Flash Cannon.

The fighting resist is similarly tough to actualize as this typing commonly paired with Poison and Fairy type moves from the likes of Venom, Valiant or Sneasler.

Dark is a bit more mixed as you matchup well into Meow, Greninja and Samurott H, while likely losing to Kingambit.

The same goes for Grass, as while it resists Meowscarada pretty much always, it faces SE Moonblast from Jumbao

Its a pretty solid Uturn absorber though, which is cool for a defensive mon at higher speeds.

Lastly the Water and Electric type Matchups are fairly solid as while it’s weak to Krils Ice Beam, the move is comparably weak and the matchup could be turned in 33s favor if faster.

Top 10 defensive typing on the market?

Maybe not.

This one is similarly weird as steel/grass. The typing is obvi great Bu… Nah I’m joking. This is probably one of the hardest to take advantage typings around.

It is the best Dragon Killer. Except for Pults occasional Thunder it comfortably takes neutral damage at most from all dragons, most notably walling both of Baxes and Wakes STABs, which are some if not the most terrifying Wallbreakers in the tier.
It is also one of the few Fairy types that isn’t weak to Kingabits Iron Head, making it great as a cover all Dark type check, which only has trouble into Meowscarada and maybe Colossoil and even that is salvageable through higher speed as you also threaten these frail(er) Mons Super effectively.

Fire and Water are mixed bags.
Handling Iron Moth and to lesser extent Cinderace, could be tough as both run Poison „STABs“ and Pyroak and Volcanion both are impossible matchups for different reasons. Even Heatran is commonly used to lure and remove Water types with Magma Storm and Tera Grass.
It still can take advantage of Hemoglobin though depending on bulk, which is pretty neat.

As mentioned you completely wall Walking Wake as well as Greninja and Hamurott.
Krill and Rotom are a problem though, as they can take advantage of 33 trying to check their Water moves.

It will be interesting to see how speed might impact especially the Kril Matchup

Fighting resist is probably the hardest to make work, as seen with Fairy/Dragon the Fighting Type moves often are accompanied by Poison type moves, And Valiant can threaten with Thunderbolt.
It has the upper hand into Offensive Great Tusk, which while ground type moves hurt still is unlikely to be able to kill especially if slower.

Another of the upper echelon of resists and immunities. Though this one falls into the category not fit for the meta.
While I’ve been discussing mostly resists so far, this typings weaknesses are maybe the worst to have in The Meta rn.
Ground, Fighting and Fire are incredibly common and mostly incredibly powerful.

Resisting Normal Rock and Steel is pretty useless if basically all mons that you would like to check also run Ground or Fighting moves that threaten super effective damage.

Resisting Bug is not as valuable, when all but one mon that use Uturn commonly also have Potent Fire, Ground or Fighting coverage or STAB.

Resisting Fairy is pointless, when the two best fairies in the game threaten Super effective STAB.
Same goes for Poison and Psychic, which most often are paired with Fire or Fighting Moves

And Resisting Ice or Dragon only helps if you predict perfectly, when all dragons run either Ground or Fire coverage.

Leaves you with three resist to Grass, Electric and flying, the former of which isn’t super common and the other two are still mixed bags as Pokémon like Iron Hands or Zapdos still take advantage of the typing.

So ye this is definitely one of the typings that looks amazing, but that imo won’t function as intende.

Ooooooweeeeeeee. The best defensive typing (if you add weaknesses and resists).
But is it really?

First of all two immunities are amazing.

Well they would be if… do you remember my initial example?
Probably not, bc the post is tooo fucking long.

But as mentioned a bunch of times throughout the post Dragons love their Ground or Fire type coverage and Poison types seem to have a subscription to fire type moves and probably resist the best STAB you have so they give a fuck anyway if you switch in.

The uturn resis as mentioned is most valuable when you also don’t care about Fire, Ground or Fighting type moves, which unfortunately this type does.

You resist ice? Get EQed. You Resist Rock? Get EPed (or suck on this salt), you resist Psychic? Ok granted you do pretty well into Hoopa, which I forgot existed, but still other fire types are likely to make flambé of you.You Resist Fairy? Get Bladed. It does beat Valiant maybe depending on bulk, which certainly is nice to have (until it starts running Tera Fire viably)

The Best matchup this type has is into Dark types as none of them Carries anything super effective to hit it with and you Threaten back most of them super effectively.

Overall I think it is closer to grass/steel than to electric/steel with how much there is to work with, but surprisingly it feels a bit more like an uphill battle than you’d expect from the“best defensive typing in the game“

Im tired someone else do the rest.

overall I came to like Fairy/Posion, Water/Ground, Water/Flying and Water/Fairy as they seem like the least exploitable options here.
i am leaning towards one of the Water Types in general just because how hard it is to check Water and Fire type attackers atm.

As well as specifically behind the type combos:
Mono Poison, Fire/Flying, Grass/Poison
Coming back for some thoughts on the other typings submitted so far:

this typing immediately puts me off due to the lack of synergy between the two types. throwing away common dragon type and fighting type matchups thanks to a poison typing, now struggling with baxcalibur, roaring moon, dragonite, iron valiant, great tusk, list goes on. fairy is good offensively and poison offers benefits, but i dont like these typings together in the current metagame. even fairies like enamorous and hatterene can take advantage of it, as well as dark types like kingambit and colossoil.
while the list of resists, weaknesses etc might look appealing when separated from actual mons, im left wondering if it would be able to put in impressive work against actual offensive pokemon that you'd really appreciate walling.
as far as positives go, as a fairy it maintains resist/neutral matchups into dragapult. it's also neutral against hemo's bitter blade, which means it could check in theory. it also has a good matchup into meowscarada and sneasler. but from what i can tell, this is all it really boasts. im iffy on its greninja and waking wake matchups, with their hard hitting water stabs being the unresisted one in this case. same goes with enamorous being such a common user of earth power, and the other dragons/fightings using ground moves as mentioned before.

it has some alright matchups into some passive or defensive mons, as well as some special attackers that all the poison types in the tier can handle. Though Im not really that impressed by that as a wall. Things like Arghonaut, Jumbao, and Grimmsnarl are things you could throw a rock at inside any common team and hit 3 mons that check that pokemon, so its hard for me to count as a positive. Also, offensively, this type combination does not have great synergy. I think its an alright typing with a ton of competition and overall not one of the top picks out of the suggestions. Itll be a severe challenge to complete with two poison types which act as the pinnacle of physical and special walls, being Venomicon and Galarian Slowking, but also because this typing really just doesnt fit the concept and i feel is mainly just exciting as an underused combination.

this typing is alright. i think water/flying is one of the best possible offensive typings imaginable because it has such good neutral coverage and it does have a decent neutral matchup into a huge number of mons. its also got good matchups into things like great tusk, argho, libra and more. its a wall with a sr weakness, but this definitely is not the end of the world. i do wish it was a bit more resistant to faster mons rather than things like argho and libra as i mentioned for poison/fairy and also that neutral coverage is not as impressive as relevant SE coverage for this type of concept with a lower power level. see: offensive pelipper vs defensive pelipper.
this likely handles cinderace, astrolotl, greninja, zamazenta, iron valiant, possibly iron moth and great tusk. overall, not a bad listing.
though im definitely a bit spooked at some of the fast mons that can tech in an electric move to completely obliterate this- examples are zamazenta, iron moth, iron valiant, dragapult.
overall, there have been concepts in the past where i felt like water/flying was an incredible choice, and they were usually focused more on its incredible offensive prowess when abusing its neutral coverage, so it would be a bit weird that the one that it wins would be for a mon that really isnt focused on that aspect of the typing.

i have a soft spot for this typing because i think its very concept relevant. not sure if generically good or not, but it has a great matchup into fastmons just like water/fairy, and although dragon fairy is very poor synergy offensively it has a pretty nice and unique defensive profile. answering things like gren, meow, roaring moon, dragapult, and more in the same slot is definitely quite interesting.

Neutral typings
There's a fair number of typings posted which are kinda banking on their widely neutral matchups. So I just wanted to sum them all up with a sentence or two, and say which ones I feel do the best job here.
this is an extremely neutral typing which can be beneficial for some roles-and its relevant here. but out of the neutral typings, i think this is one of the less impressive ones. this is because the others simply offer more impactful resists, immunities, and uturn resistances. this focuses on being anti-dragapult, which could be exciting at the highest tiers of speed to cancel out the one mon that is faster.

a good defensive typing somewhat famous for its neutral-or-better nature with matchups. that makes it pretty fitting here. really not a fan of how weak it is offensively though, which definitely raises questions. a slightly more powerful uturn paired with outspeeding a mon goes some of the way here, though. so i'd rank this highly compared to the others suggested. It could check dragapult, meow, bax, roaring moon, sneasler, syclant, and have a lot of neutral matchups on top, which is why its interesting. although it can be teched for with fire moves by things like dragapult and enamorous quite easily.

this is in line with bug steel for me, though i believe bug/steel might be more impressive with less weaknesses. reading the thread im seeing a lot of support for this over bug/steel, and the typings are honestly close enough to the point where I dont really care too much. The lack of ice resist and fighting weakness for me does not overpower a water resist, though krilowatt remains relevant and its a toss-up as to which is more valuable.

another typing in a similar boat. good neutral matchups and lack of meaningful weaknesses. its definitely not mindblowing defensively but there is routes that could match this type of typing for the concept that make sense. This typing feels like it really leans into the neutral game, only really offering a resist for Cinder, Iron Moth, and Astrolotl out of the entire pool of fast offensive mons. Though it also should probably be considered as good into Krilowatt and Rotom-Wash.

Overall out of the neutrals, bug/steel I think is the most interesting.
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The two types that I’m supporting are poison/fire and dragon/steel.

Poison and fire is a type currently used by Salazzle, Iron Moth, and Mollux. Despite the typing being good defensively, the only Pokémon that can really take advantage of this is Mollux with its special defense. The resistances that this typing get are fighting, poison, steel, fire, and ice, with a 4x resistance to grass, and fairy, and bug but that doesn’t really matter as much. This give us a total of 8 resistances along with an immunity to burn and toxic. This allows us to have some defense as well as offense with the poison and fire stab. and even though the type has a 4x weakness to ground, it makes up with a 4x resistance to fairy, which Pokémon like Hemogoblin, Jumbao, and Flutter Mane (before the ban) make this typing worth having.

Now for dragon and steel type. Knowing how Hisuian Goodra can be as a wall, I’m surprised that no one brought this type up yet. First, the two types covers each other’s weaknesses giving us only two types that hit for super effective, those being fighting and ground. Second, the typing has 9 resistances one of them being a 4x resistance to grass. And third, it’s immune to toxic, which is always a good thing. I feel like this and poison/fire type both have a good chance on being a good defensive typing despite no one mentioning them.

Now that I’ve got that out of the way I wanted to also talk about a couple of other types that I’ve seen and liked throughout the thread.

dragon/fairy: A unique type combination that’s currently held by only one Pokémon, that being Mega Altaria. So the idea of dragon and fairy type sounds cool.

mono poison: I just like the poison type and think I’d be cool to see a mono poison type Pokémon. Especially since we only have two CAP Pokémon that are mono type. As for how well it can do as a wall, Garganacl (a mono rock type) was able to show how well it can do as a wall even with its 5 weakness. So I believe that mono poison could do good as a wall itself.
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first of all, thanks for the support on Poison Dragon.

I'd like to give my thoughts and feedback on other typings that have been discussed. Forgive me if these takes aren't exactly new or profound.

Water / Flying:
The main boons to this typing are Water, Fighting, and Ground resistance. We have free or almost free entry into a lot just by virtue of these three typings (Libra, Great Tusk, Hemo) and a striking amount of neutral matchups. The electric weakness is an issue given how prevalent Krillowatt and Zapdos are but it is not a deal breaker. Rock weakness is also unfortunate given Stealth Rock's existence, but it's also not a dealbreaker.

Water / Fairy:
While this typing may seem good at a glance,
it is. it really is.
Snuffs out Walking Wake. Good into Great Tusk. Good into Dragapult, Baxcalibur, Zamazenta, and netural into a LOT of others. Bug resistance is good for eating uturn. Dark resistance is good for Kingambit, and our water typing means we are neutral towards Steel. Fire resistance means we beat Hemo. The Poison weakness is an issue given the prominence of Venomicon and Sneasler but its good into so much else that i believe it can be overlooked, as is the Electric weakness. Definitely one of my favored typings.

Water / Ground:
How original. (jokingly)
I can see the reasons we'd want a caffeinated Swampert. The Steel resistance is good into Libra and Gholdengo, and the electric immunity means the latter's Thunderbolt cannot touch us. Additionally, Grass is a pretty good weakness to have in this meta, seeing as the only prevalent grass types are Jumbao, Cari, and Meowscarada. Our other resists mean we are great into Hemo, Iron Moth (save for grass coverage), and Sneasler, and Krillowatt. Good typing.

Grass / Steel:
Daring today, aren't we? (still jokingly)
some of us may groan about how generic these typing are, but they are ifantastic typings, which is more important for the CAP process. And this typing is immense. A steel type neutral to ground? delectable. Water AND electric resistances meaning we stonewall Krill? yum yum. Steel resistace so we can eat Make it Rain from Gholdengo? Double yum yum. A dragon resistance meaning, in conjunction with our water resistance, we can stand unbothered by Walking Wake, one of the most destructive wallbreakers in the tier, and take ALL of its catastrophic attacks on the chin without any risk whatsoever oh wait its 4x weak to fire

Fire weakness definitely sucks here. Heatran, Hemo, Walking Wake's Flamethrower, and msc fire coverage is prominent. Fighting is also seen a lot in great tusk, Iron Valiant, and Sneasler. Honestly, I dont care for this typing because while strong and only having two weaknesses, those weaknesses give it a lot of grief seeing as so many of the top meta threats have a way to deal with it, be Hemo's fire STAB, Venomicon's Body Press, Dragonite's Fire Punch, Great Tusk, Zamazenta, Iron Moth, so on so forth. There's a lot for this typing to be afraid of. While solid, I don't believe it is our best choice.

Bug / Steel:
Same boat as Grass/steel. dont like the fire weakness. This time without the water or electric resistance! not being weak to fighting is solid, though. This typing is again not my favorite but i see why it is liked. Fairy Resistance is good but when you're 4x weak to the best fairy currently, meh.

and even though the type has a 4x weakness to ground, it makes up with a 4x resistance to fairy, which Flutter Mane’s existence alone make this type worth having.
flutter mane was banned day 3


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Upon further reflection, I think what's really driving my interest behind Dark/Fairy is most critically the Dark typing. While Dark is generally considered more offensive in nature, it provides a crucial Ghost- and Dark-type resistances and has extremely spammable STAB moves that are useful not just for a wall, but for a fast wall. Choosing a Dark typing for a slow wall is a bit questionable due to the common weaknesses to U-turn, Fighting, and Fairy, but I think Dark typing for a fast wall is actually quite fantastic. So, while I still enjoy Dark/Fairy typing for reasons explained previously, I'd also like to support Dark/Poison and Dark/Flying.

Dark/Poison's secondary Poison typing fully cancels those aforementioned weaknesses to Dark. In fact, Dark/Poison's lack of weaknesses makes it more similar to a Water/Ground or Grass/Steel; though its smaller number of resists is of note. Think of it as a more defensive alternative to Dark/Fairy, where both Dark and Poison STAB moves are really frustrating to switch into, baking some offensive potential into the typing.

It might be annoying to be a Poison type that doesn't resist Hemogoblin's Pixilate-boosted Extreme Speed, but a core that's seen good use lately has been Venomicon + Galarian Slowking. It might be odd to see two Poison-types as a core, but they don't actually share any weaknesses. Dark/Poison + Venomicon could form a similar core, where Dark/Poison tackles Pokemon like Gholdengo and Venomicon tackles Pokemon like Hemogoblin. One could also look at the typing as a Dark type that has a secondary STAB that stuffs Hemogoblin (or at the very least forces it to Terastallize).

Dark/Flying, on the other hand, does not alleviate the Fairy weakness, but it does address the Bug and Fighting weaknesses and inserts a crucial Ground-type immunity. We've seen this typing work well on Mandibuzz, which, while not the slowest Pokemon, never really invested too much in its speed stat. I think there's merit to seeing how this typing would operate on a much faster Pokemon. While the reliance on Heavy-Duty Boots is annoying, Flying typing means that it can at least ignore Spikes even after being knocked, making the issue a little less critical than for something like a Fire-type. Flying-type moves don't have the same annoying secondary effects that Poison or Fairy have, but they're still generally strong moves to use for neutral damage.

Overall, I think there's a lot of merit for Dark typing for a fast wall (dare I say enough to have multiple Dark typings slated?). Crucially, the typings discussed - Dark/Fairy, Dark/Poison, and Dark/Flying - still have a great matchup into Hoopa-U (aside from Thunderbolt into Dark/Flying). Having a Pokemon on bulkier squads to tackle both Hoopa-U and Dragapult is very useful for current compositions. They also have some sort of recourse into Arghonaut, making that much less of a switch-in than it would want to be.


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Hey, doing another post on a few typings;

Steel / Dragon
This has been brought up before, but I think its a sorta underrated typing in the discussion so far. It has a lot of the same defensive benefits as Steel/Grass (which is hyped super hard), and expands that to include every single water type (barring Argh), and also a few more Flying/Fairy/Fire types that are otherwise inaccessible. Now, its not all roses; Steel and Dragon are both somehow worse offensive typings than Grass is atm, weird as it is to think about, making it sorta difficult to run hyper efficient offensive combos that walls often like nowadays.

That said, lets get into some stats I calculated.
Typing 1:Typing 2:
Mean BP172.011899135BP_Ceil167.998616412

I should provide some context here. For each mon I looked at every single set, and then asked myself what the strongest move they can use vs this typing is. Then, taking each mon I summed up across each set (eg if off Great Tusk can CC you for 360 effective BP, but bulky tusk can EQ you for 75 BP after a resist, then you get a score of 0.5 from Tusk). N_100 was then calculating by summing these scores across every mon in the meta. A score of 12 means you effectively hard wall 12 mons, though technically its walling 12 mons worth of sets. Regardless I do think this correlates with absolute walling potential. Score_100 is then taking the VR ranking into account, and a higher Score means the threats you wall are typically higher ranked. This is still a bit unclear, but I can share the formulas for all of this.

Now that is out of the way, Steel/Dragon takes relatively low damage across the entire meta barring like, EQ, EP, and CC. Just about any mon lacking those sorta strugggles to really damage it that much, which is shown by excellent matchups into the following:

Water Types: Krilowatt (90 BP IB), Walking Wake (195 BP Draco), Rotom Wash, Volcanion (180 BP EP)
Electric Types: Zapdos (Heat Wave Lol), Caribolt (Lol)
Poison Types: Slowking-Galar (Lol), Toxapex (Lol), Glimmora (180 BP EP)

Beyond that there's several matchups where you don't necessarily resist their main STAB, but you have the potential to force them out:

Dragon Types: Dragapult (195 BP Draco), Baxcalibur (180 BP Glavie), Dragonite (200 BP EQ), Miasmaw (200 BP EQ), Roaring Moon (200 BP EQ)
Fairy Types: Iron Valiant (CM Only), Enamorus (EP)

I am missing some mons because the VR goes quite low, but it does sorta show how basically in all of these examples its just EP or EQ, which are typically coverage moves. Being that we're quite fast, and a lot of these mons are choiced, we have a lot of potential to just swap into a resisted hit and force them out, or just leverage our speed to force the opponent out even if they do click the ground move.


Now for one that I've not seen so far; not that its not been submitted, as I may have missed something, but I've not seen it so far.

Normal / Ghost has a single weakness to Dark, 3 immunities, and two admittedly less than stellar resists. This is a typing that's rarely going to be switching in on a resisted hit barring Venom/Slowking-G, meaning that its often going to be leveraging neutral hits, but at the same time, the immunities are super valuable. A ghost typing means you are a potential spin-blocker, and looking at the meta, and our status as a wall, you're likely one of the few that can even dream about blocking Libra / Tusk longer term.

Now to dive into the statistics.
Typing 1:Typing 2:
Mean BP160.8455882BP_Ceil160.8455882
So, as you can see, there's a lot fewer mons than Steel/Dragon that you just hard wall every single one of the moves on their set. You simply have far fewer resists than they do, and well, Knock Off is a common enough move on a lot of the Fighting types in the format. That said, you actually have more mons where they can only hit you for 150 BP max than Steel/Dragon does, likely due to Normal/Ghost not being hit SE by EQ. Averaged across every pokemon in the meta, the average pokemon has a lower BP that they can hit you for, largely due to the plentiful immunites this typing offers. Now, lets get into the matchups:

Ghost Types: Dragapult (195 BP Draco), Gholdengo (180 BP Rain)
Poison Types: Venomicon (165 BP Hurricane), Slowking-Galar (67.5 BP Sludge), Sneasler (140 BP Night Slash), Glimmora (120 BP Power Gem)

This typing also, while not explicitly resisting either Great Tusk or Equilibra, is hardly bad into either; Equlibra only has a neutrally effective Earth Power, which isn't insane for a wall to tank through (see Argh vs Libra), and while Tusk can Knock you, if you don't die to the first hit, the second is doing less than neutral EQ. This means we have the potential to tech into being basically the only spinblocker that actually deals with Libra longer term (not named Rev).

Rapid Spin: Equilibra (135 BP Epower), Great Tusk (195 BP 1st high Knock, 130 BP 2nd hit)

Beyond this, there's just a ton of neutral matchups; Fairy types can hit you neutrally with Moonblast, but little beyond that, Kril's SpA being 83 will definitely show vs this typing, and there's a ton of room to tech into specific matchups through either stat spread or ability. I'd also like to emphasize that this mon is both able to hold covert cloak (not SR weak), and benefits hugely from it. Cloak means that standard SR Venom quite literally cannot touch you, being able to hit you with a resisted Sludge Bomb at best, ID and SR Garg are both helpless, and so are the other Poisons.

Typing everything into the spreadsheet I'm using is a bit of a long process, but I digress.


In terms of Water typings, I think I'm heavily in favor of Water/Fairy, as it has just an absurd array of good matchups, Water/Flying cause that typing is just nuts into a ton of stuff, and as said before Water/Ground. Water/Ground admittedly is a neutrality typing, and there's a very large amount of competition between Ground types now, but that's also true of Flying types. Venomicon is truly the god of the meta, and that's honestly my main worry with Water/Flying. Its unclear that we necessarily get a team slot over it. That said, there's a lot it can't do, so I'm optimistic for Water/Flying.
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I would also like to give support to Dark/Flying, as I think it is really underrated so far and one of the best typings we could offer to our fast wall.

snake already covered why Dark as a typing for a wall can work quite well in his post, but I'd like to acknowledge how the Flying typing gives a Dark/Flying fast wall some really good matchups into scary offensive threats. Firstly, there's the fast Fighting-type crew of Iron Valiant, Sneasler, and Zamazenta. I doubt our spread will be able to outspeed Zama, but that's fine. I think just being able to potentially outspeed and threaten Sneasler and Valiant could prove really useful even if they should be able to 1v1 our wall in theory (I don't know if we can bring Terastalization into this, but imagine a Poison Tera on this to perfectly 1v1 these Fighters... that is spicy!). Then there's stuff like Meowscarada which this typing safely beats outside of rare Play Rough sets, and that's quite useful as Meow can be really annoying to switch in on. Other things weak to Flying this typing could beat: weakened Jumbaos, the obligatory Great Tusk, Miasmaw. Then we move onto the Dark typing, which gives us some really great resists for this meta. The Ghost resist means we're good into Gholdengo and Dragapult, although the matchups aren't perfect due to their strong secondary STABs. With enough bulk, however, I'm sure we could check them just fine. The Dark resist allows this typing to crucially check Hoopa-Unbound and gives it a decent matchup into Samurott-Hisui as well. Kingambit is an issue, however, but at least we won't be dying to boosted Sucker Punches? :psywoke:

Idk, I'm rambling at this point but I think Dark/Flying has SERIOUS potential to carve a unique and really good niche for our speedy wall build in this meta. It's got some clear weaknesses for sure, we'll likely be relying on Boots which sucks because I wanna be creative with item choice lol (this is also why my other Dark-type support would go to Dark/Fairy cause it trades the Rock weakness away for some other stuff and functions kinda similarly to Dark/Flying). But I think the upsides to the typing are really neat and are especially fitting for the concept.
Coming in here once again with a typing suggestion that I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen brought up yet: Ghost/Dark.

This typing is admittedly quite similar to Ghost/Normal, which is admittedly also a typing I have grown very fond of over the past few days, and would also like to show my support for. But I think that Ghost/Dark would also work just as well and should be discussed as a potential alternative for a Ghost typing. While both Ghost/Normal and Ghost/Dark have only two resistances and one resistance respectively, they more than make up for it with being neutral to almost every other typing in the game, having three whole immunities, and being weak to only one type each. Again, while all of these benefits apply to Ghost/Normal and make it a great typing for this CAP, Ghost/Dark does have a few crucial benefits that I think merit it being discussed as well.

1: Its neutrality to Dark. The one thing that does worry me about Ghost/Normal is its sole weakness to Dark, which not only makes it weak to Kingambit, one of the best mons in the metagame, but it also makes it susceptible to Knock Off, which is a very common move in the metagame. Ghost/Dark trades this weakness to Dark for a neutrality to it instead, at the price of a weakness to Fairy. The weakness to Fairy admittedly isn't the greatest thing, what with mons like Iron Valiant and Hemogoblin being so common, but the Dark neutrality improves our matchup into one of our S-ranks and keeps us from being to susceptible to Knock Off.

Speaking of Knock Off...

2: The STAB on Knock Off. Knock Off is well known to be one of the best moves in the metagame, with many of the best walls in the metagame, such as Toxapex, making good use of it to cripple mons that rely on their held items to get past its sheer bulk. The speed of CAP 33 gives this move even more utility, as it'll be able to remove items from foes before they can even make a move. The added Dark typing on CAP 33 gives this move an even more powerful STAB bonus, allowing for extra spammability.

3: The immunity to Psychic. Admittedly, at first, this might look like a negative in comparison to Normal/Ghost, as this third immunity replaces the immunity to Ghost on Normal/Ghost, which does make this typing slightly worse into mons like Dragapult and Gholdengo. However, this immunity to Psychic does allow us to act as a better check to one important Pokemon: Hoopa-Unbound. And while this typing is slightly worse into Dragapult and Gholdengo, the Ghost/Dark dual stabs still scare them out. And, as Snake said in his post, a wall that can handle both Hoopa-U and Dragapult is incredible for bulky teams, and one of the big reasons why the Dark typing is such a popular submission for typings in general.

Admittedly, this typing isn't perfect, and certainly has its flaws compared to Ghost/Normal. I already mentioned the Fairy weakness and the Ghost neutrality, but Ghost/Normal also has the advantage of having a second resistance in Bug, which allows it to much more effectively combat U-turn spam. Still, the sheer profile of neutralities that Ghost/Dark has, combined with the positives I mentioned above, make it a very solid alternative that I think deserves to be discussed more.
First time posting, a newcomer in CAP as a whole, I'd like to make a suggestion of my own.
I believe that either Dragon/Fairy or Dragon/Poison would make a good fast defensive pokemon.
Dragon is a type that I believe to be a strong defensive type that adds many valuable resistances to a team. However, most dragon types are known for their offensive capabilities rather than their defensive profile. While there have been more and more Dragon type pokemon that use its good resistances, a fast dragon type that can take many hits would be a good addition to many teams.
The secondary typing for these adds additional defensive utility to the dragon type. The concept of a Fairy Dragon Steel core (FDS) is nothing new, with the three types combined resisting 16 out of the 18 types. While having both Fairy and Dragon on the same pokemon can give it all the benefits of a Dragon type to a Fairy while only gaining an Ice and Fairy weakness in return. However, considering the current state of the metagame I think a Fairy weak pokemon, no matter how fast, isn't going to wall much hits or apply offensive pressure in return.
That is why I think the Dragon/Poison type can also be a good type combination. It gives Dragon a neutrality to Fairy while also making them hit Fairies super effectively. Additionally, a resistance to Fighting is always valuable, as it can come in against fast strong targets such as Sneasler and Zamazenta.
I hope I did this right.
More reviews of neutral typings- the spooky edition.

Poison/Dark is a good typing. I did originally think this was an amazing typing, but then I realised I was basing it off of the interactions of Alolan Muk with an AV equipped which was inflating my opinion on it. I dont want to call this a great typing, because I dont think it is a great typing for a wall. I think its good for a very particular type of wall. It has one weakness and that weakness is pretty rare coverage for special attackers. Its list of resists is passable, though on the low side, yet still feels meaningful. It can take dark moves from :greninja: :meowscarada: and we know it to be decent into :dragapult: and :gholdengo: as a ghost resist. Psychic types like :hoopa-unbound: and :cresselia: are handled also. When a mon like Alolan Muk or Galarian Slowking can leverage its neutral defenses with a monster spdef stat (while still having a few meaningful resists) it can go a long way, and thats what I'm seeing a little bit of here.

Ghost/Dark is a typing that is just about okay. Its sell is taking its neutralities to the extreme, and it does it well- with a pretty obscure fairy weakness that is rarely used as coverage in the tier that isnt STAB. This makes it "not bad" into just about everything on both sides of the offensive spectrum. But this isnt necessarily a good thing either. With 3 immunites and 1 resist, and next to no super effective hits against offensive pokemon, this mon will be getting hit hard neutrally and likely not trading well with a number of offensive threats in the tier, having next to no help with any strong attack and ultimately limiting its switchins. For me, this could be taking the idea of neutralities too far, making it one of the weaker neutral typings. Im gunna go into more detail on this inside of Ghost/Normal.

Ghost/Normal is a typing thats been hyped in this thread a fair amount, but I see it as in line with (if not weaker than) Ghost/Dark. This typing is just okay. Its immunities can give a switch into :gholdengo: and :dragapult: in theory, despite being neutral on their more powerful nuke option. Outside of that, it has an incredibly neutral matchup with absolutely everything, which doesnt leave me hopeful. This concept is very specifically a wall, and mons actually need a little something to work with in a tera metagame to wall a couple of things. I could see this struggling immensely to find a meaningful place as a wall against offensive pokemon and not a generic utility pokemon that wants to play the midgame into passive/defensive spin/hazard options (which it sounds a lot better at), not to mention a lot of offensive mons do carry its singular weakness as STAB or coverage-
:roaring-moon: :meowscarada: :greninja: :iron-valiant: :great-tusk: :cawmodore: :zamazenta: ( :sneasler: sometimes)
So this one doesnt have me sold. Im down for typings that boast a lot of neutralities, but usually they offer a little more than this as well. I know this is an ultra popular typing that will keep coming up until it wins, but I'd say to save this for a more offensive concept where you can actually abuse its strengths more- which is having a near-perfect neutral offensive coverage.
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Just wanted to make a quick post about a couple more typings that are cool.

Poison/Fighting is a typing that has only existed on a couple offensive Pokemon in the past, but it actually has quite a lot of defensive strengths. It's basically what I would refer to as a pseudo-fairy. It has Fairy's Fighting, Dark, and Bug resists (which are really, really useful in this meta), but it adds in Poison and Rock, and crucially has a Toxic immunity, a rocks resistance, and cool STABs to mess around with which are some of the most useful to have on a defensive Pokemon.

Its weakness to Ground is its main achilles' heel, but several of the relevant grounds are slow and weak to Fighting (Libra, Ting-lu, and Ursaluna). Its remaining weaknesses to Flying and Psychic are not super difficult to manage in the current meta. It checks Zamazenta pretty well, it resists Sucker Punch while slamming Kingambit with its Fighting STAB (and having Poison STAB for tera Fairy), and checks the standard SD Valiant set while being neutral to Fairy. It's neutral into a lot of remaining threats like Pult, Kril, and Hemo, so with reasonable bulk it can hold its own in a solid majority of the matchups it might find itself in.

Steel / Dragon is pretty cool. Checking stuff like Kril and Zapdos and Caribolt is tough, and this does that pretty well. It has matchups with a lot of threats where it resists one STAB and is neutral to the other, and with reasonable bulk most of those matchups end up being pretty positive. Ground and Fighting weaknesses suck, but you're pretty good into mostly everything else, so if you pair it with a Venomicon or something you're probably looking alright.
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The are 2 routes to pursue with this style of build. Option 1: we can invest in a wide variety of relevant resists/immunities that puts less emphasis on our defenses during the stats stage. Option 2: we instead aim for a typing that has a broader range of neutral interactions and reinforce it with more generous abilities and defensive stats.

I am more interested in the stat-focused approach since we historically go all-in on typings. Typing is typically first in the stage order, and it is easy to gravitate towards typings that cover a wide variety of offensive and defensive benchmarks we have begun to theorycraft. With all the power budget available to us, we can afford to allocate a large portion of it to typing. Given that we are already out of our comfort zone with a defensive project, I would like to see us take it a step further and explore stat structures we never experiment with.

A mono-typing easily shift focus in this direction. Mono-types can capture a number of relevant resistances while offering the overall neutral interactions that complement a stat-focused approach.
Same honestly.

If I may give a quick additional type suggestion it would be Mono ghost

Being immune to Normal and Fighting seems quite tempting, although being weak to Dark and itself might be quite undesirable.
Same honestly.

If I may give a quick additional type suggestion it would be Mono ghost

Being immune to Normal and Fighting seems quite tempting, although being weak to Dark and itself might be quite undesirable.
I actually agree here, and I think that types that have a ton of neutrality and some minor key resistances could be good.
Piptochi above mentioned Dark/Poison, and if we were to give more emphasis on its walling capabilities in its stats, movepools, abilities, etc, I think this mostly very neutral type can have good success.
A STAB Dark type is always really nice to have, and one that isn't weak to fairy is even more so. The poison/toxic immunity is also key for a wall.
Yeah I think I convinced myself that I want a Dark/Poison with an emphasis on the stats haha.
Ok haven't been able to type up a post until now but I wanted to talk about the Dragons and the birds:

While general neutrality to several types is beneficial for a fast wall archetype, I find focusing on checking a few key threats gives CAP33 more of a reason to be chosen in the teambuilder. Dragon provides some key resistances that would enable CAP33 to check a specific set of fast-but-not-too-fast threats, specifically in Krilowatt, Caribolt, Zapdos, and Iron Moth. This profile gives Dragons strong synergy with Venomicon, as they are able to check Venom's switchins like Krilowatt and Iron Moth, with Venomicon being able to answer Fairies like Hemogoblin and Iron Valiant.

Dragon/Poison and Dragon/Fairy have both been discussed heavily and I think they are great typings for the reasons mentioned by others. Dragon/Poison enables CAP33 to check the aforementioned group of Krilowatt, Caribolt, Zapdos, and Iron Moth, while also letting CAP33 hard switch into Venom and 1v1 Fairies. While Dragon/Fairy no longer checks Iron Moth consistently, it does trade that for the ability to answer Walking Wake and Dragapult, as well as other threats like Zamazenta and Samurott-H.

Dragon/Ghost is an option that I want to mention that hasn't been discussed yet. I find this typing is in many ways an alternative to Dragon/Poison that is not Ground weak, but still holds the Poison resist and Fighting immunity that lets Dragon/Poison effectively answer Venomicon, Zamazenta, and Iron Moth. Furthermore, Dragon/Ghost shares the added benefit of the other Ghost typings in the thread of being capable of spinblocking.

Dragon/Steel is pretty cool but I find it to be inferior in a lot of ways to Dragon/Poison; turning the Fire resistance into a neutrality is far from ideal, and the Fighting weakness removes our capability to come in on Venom and Zamazenta.

Now I want to talk about a specific type that I'm not particularly fond of, being Flying. Frankly, any Flying type for CAP33 will immediately struggle to find use over Venomicon. This starkly contrasts with if CAP33 were to share a Poison type with Venomicon, in which Venomicon would be able to cover CAP33's Ground weakness and CAP33 could potentially cover Venom's Psychic weakness, leaving no common weaknesses between the two. Meanwhile, a shared Flying type will likely share multiple weaknesses with Venomicon, making it much more difficult to form defensive cores with the two mons. While I don't deny that other Flying types like Zapdos and Enamorus can be run successfully alongside Venomicon, the key difference is that the other Flying type serves a primarily offensive purpose, as opposed to CAP33's defensive inclination. Consequently, more often than not CAP33 will be in competition for Venomicon for a teamslot, a competition it will likely lose. Venomicon provides tremendous utility to the team through Knock Off, U-turn, and fishing for Sludge Bomb poisons. But most notably of these utility options, Venomicon is basically the only viable Stealth Rocker in the tier right now. As a result, I wouldn't be surprised if building with a Flying CAP33 becomes quite awkward unless we are pigeonholed to giving it Stealth Rock.

Furthermore, I don't find any of the secondary typings to Flying to provide much use over the Poison/Flying typing Venom already has. The additional resists they provide seem pretty inconsequential when Venomicon is already a pokemon infamous for its ability to stave off neutral hits. The only exception to this is Water/Flying, which critically provides a Fire resist where Venomicon can struggle to tank Fire hits against Sun teams.

Still, there's one key factor that a Flying type CAP33 would have over Venomicon, being its speed. The big question is if speed alone is a reason to justify using CAP33. When we consider that Venomicon already has a faster, more aggressive alternative for more offensive teams in Venomicon-E, the window for CAP33's niche seems quite small. I would argue that the only way to make our speed stat matter is if we can utilize CAP33 as a major form of speed control for teams. While this is a strong niche in its own right, it does restrict our speed stat from being fast to being very fast, and I'm unsure if a more restricting design space is a desirable outcome.

Also Poison/Fairy and Water/Fairy are pretty cool


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Dragon/Ghost is an option that I want to mention that hasn't been discussed yet. I find this typing is in many ways an alternative to Dragon/Poison that is not Ground weak, but still holds the Poison resist and Fighting immunity that lets Dragon/Poison effectively answer Venomicon, Zamazenta, and Iron Moth. Furthermore, Dragon/Ghost shares the added benefit of the other Ghost typings in the thread of being capable of spinblocking.
A fast Dragon/Ghost would heavily compete with Dragapult. You could argue Dragapult is offensive and CAP 33 defensive, but CAP 33's attacking moves of choice are probably going to be Shadow Ball and/or Draco Meteor, Dragapult's favorite moves as well. Dragapult can also run more defensive sets, so one would probably outclass the other in that category.

When it comes to frailer defensive Pokemon, I think having lots of resists is much more important than having few weaknesses, so I can't really support types like Ghost/Dark, Normal/Ghost, and Water/Ground. I like anything Fairy, Steel, and Flying, which have several good resists.

A typing I'd like to share is Electric/Fairy. Amazing Special Defensive typing, being able to wall out Draco Meteors and Thunderbolts and take minimal chip from Knock Offs and U-turns. The only disadvantages I can think of are a nasty Ground weakness and playing too similarly to Tapu Koko if that is a concern (I know it doesn't exist in SV OU, but it may not be as appealing to make CAP 33 play similarly to already existing Pokemon, whether they exist in the meta or not).


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After feeding every post in here into an AI chatbot and having it summarize the information and telling me exactly what I should think, I have determined a few typings I support:

- Water / Flying
- Poison / Dark
- Dark / Flying
- Grass / Steel

I'll do a small blurb on each since, honestly, I think the typing stage isn't as important as the stat stage and because many have iterated the points I have.

Water / Flying
One immediate merit of Water/Flying is the the significant number of resistances and opportunities for a Pokemon if this typing to switch into an attack with relative ease. As many have noted about this typing, the neutralities to a lot of common attacking types in this metagame ensures that this Pokemon will be intrinsically good at entering the field of play. everything it does after that would more or less come down to its stats and moves, since I cannot imagine a STAB combo of Water/Flying being an oppressive force in the metagame. Rather, I see this STAB combo that has some generally spammable moves, but nothing overtly reliable in dishing out damage (operative word being reliable). While Hurricane and Hydro Pump are quite strong, their accuracy inherently limits how often one would want to click the move, and Scald isn't a move that's being distributed widely (though remains proconcept IMO). I think Water / Flying, despite being an average typing (one that's rather un-flashy at that) is one that would allow us a much more interesting and complex set of stat and movepool stages, and, of course, a reasonable end product in this metagame.

Poison / Dark
Many have already explained just how good Poison/Dark is from a defensive and utility perspective. I do not have any new points to present surrounding these merits, and I mean to write here only to express my support for the typing. I think having a FAST Poison/Dark type is really cool because it lets us threaten things like Gholdengo and Meowscarada, which are both on that sliding scale of speed. It also allows for some cool maneuvering around Hoopa-U and Cresselia which is fun. No point in word-vomitting facts we already know, but I wanted to voice my support here.

Dark / Flying
Dark/Flying has a lot of the pros of Water/Flying and Poison/Dark, but some interesting and different ways in acting as a wall. Snake put it pretty well IMO, while Dark is a more offensive typing, its resistances to Ghost and Dark moves are quite a boon in this present metagame. When coupled with Flying's natural resistances to Fighting and Bug moves, which are quite spammable, a Dark/Flying mon is able to maximize its entrances into the match without being afraid of immediately losing any traction. Flying also means that mon is naturally immune to Spikes (at the cost of being weak to Rocks) and the, presently rare, Sticky Web, meaning we can be confident that if this mon were to go without Heavy Duty Boots, it could still find success in stacked hazard situations. Dark / Flying is cool, I'm all for it.

Grass / Steel
This is a typing that is bar none one of the best typings in the game as evidenced by the previous successes of Kartana and Ferrothorn. I thin kgoos siad it well in their post, so I won't reiterate their points, beyond the fact that, outside of a very obvious 4x Fire Weakness, this typing has a great natural matchup against the rest of the metagame, which would thus allow us to tailor our stat line to cover very specific threats. I am generally in favor of typings that will open up later sections of the process, and Grass/Steel is absolutely one of those.
Same honestly.

If I may give a quick additional type suggestion it would be Mono ghost

Being immune to Normal and Fighting seems quite tempting, although being weak to Dark and itself might be quite undesirable.
Garganacl is mono rock and is weak to fighting, ground, steel, grass, and water, yet he’s one of the best walls in OU. So I think that mono ghost could still work even with its weakness to dark types.
Garganacl is mono rock and is weak to fighting, ground, steel, grass, and water, yet he’s one of the best walls in OU. So I think that mono ghost could still work even with its weakness to dark types.
If your pitch for a type is essentially just "what about this mon" then I'm sorry, you need a different argument. Garganacl works because of its incredible bulk, fantastic ability, and it sports a pretty good movepool in Salt Cure, Recover, and Curse. We would have to do a lot to make mono Ghost viable. Its weaknesses are very relevant (being weak to Knock Off and Dragapult is huge), and its resistances/immunities are not that great. Normal immunity means nothing when Ursaluna does about 80% minimum with Headlong Rush (unless we give it insane physical bulk which would be quite a restraint on the stats stage), and while the Fighting immunity is a bit easier to actualize, there are other types that resist Fighting that offer more. Besides, Fighting types have ways around it (Zamazenta has Crunch, Iron Valiant has Knock Off, Sneasler can do some nasty stuff with Dire Claw).

I didn't mean to sound harsh, but I figured you had a right to know why Mono Ghost doesn't work instead of being ignored and wondering why it wasn't slated.
As this thread wraps up, I wanted to put together some of my favorite typings. I'm going to touch on what I think they check, what niceties they have, and where their shortcomings are.

First up is Ghost/Normal. This type is probably the most neutral typing out there. A single weakness to dark (admittedly a rough weakness in the current meta), and an immunity to ghost and fighting. Other than that it's a big bag of neutralities, very much a blank canvas to allow us to paint our stats and movepool however we like. Because of this, it's hard to say which matchups it specifically does well into. Depending on ability and stats and moves, we can have it do well into most threats that aren't called Kingambit or the uncommon knock-off valiant. Poison/Dark is a similar typing. It has somewhat more defined matchups (does well into Hoopa-U, does poorly into tusk). Both have fun STABs too, but imo only one really needs to be slated.

The third one-weakness type I think is worth looking at is Ground/Water. This has the benefit of pairing really well with Venomicon and refusing volt switch, as well as having a more uncommon weakness in grass as opposed to dark and ground. I think it's a great typing, though I do not expect it to win against other sexier non-ground typings.

Now to the types that lean more into matchups. The first is one of my favorites,
Flying/Water. Matching up nicely into Tusk, Libra, and Argonaught, Heatran, Zamazenta, and Ting-Lu while taking neutral from Pult, Wake, Bax, and Hoopa (though Hoopa carries drain punch usually), this typing really enjoys its immunity to ground and resistance to fighting and fire, three very common attack types. I think it's all in the movepool for this one, it can be taken in several fun directions but if it has ways to switch in on physical attackers and force progress it can be a fine addition to the meta.

A rather unique typing I've seen proposed here is Dragon/Fairy. The standout matchup here is Wake, but it also does nicely into Pult, Caribolt, Rotom, Volcanion, Meow, and if it can outspeed, Valiant. The fairy ice and steel weaknesses somewhat diminish its ability to check some key threats like Hemo, Bax, and Gambit, but it's still a solid typing.
A similar typing is Water/Fairy, sharing the wake and Arg matchup while matching up better into Hemo and especially Bax, at the cost of the Meow, Volcanion, and Caribolt matchups. I think these are both somewhat awkward in terms of their defensive profiles, but both can be made to work well.

Another more focused typing is Grass/Steel. Krill is the major check, but it also does ok into gambit and caribolt as well as carrying the coveted toxic immunity. Cards on the table, I personally think this typing is a bit overhyped. It has some nice resistances, but the fighting and fire weaknesses really diminish its ability to check current threats. Like the previous two, I think it can be made well, it would just take some figuring out.

A cute typing I've been unable to get out of my head is Fighting/Steel. The headline for this typing is Kingambit check, but that's not all it does. It also resists draco from Pult and both stabs from Bax (though it does get hit by supereffective earthquake, a rather common coverage move for Bax). It's neutral into both of krill's STABs, resist Meow, and once again carries the toxic immunity. Is this typing good? I have no clue, but it's more viable than I at first assumed.

I've seen Fairy/Dark floated around. I do not like it very much, but it is definitely interesting. its weaknesses to steel, fairy, and poison mean that it does poorly up against Gambit, Hemo, Valiant, Libra, Hoopa (who almost universally carries gunk shot) and glowking. It has an immunity to psychic and a 4x resistance to dark that it doesn't care about much. On the other hand, immunity to dragon and resistance to ghost makes it one of the best Pult checks out there, and Fairy+Dark is a killer STAB spread. If this can exert some even a little offensive pressure, it will end up being able to do a lot of work scaring out much heavier hitting threats with high speed and bulk.

There are obviously so many more typings I didn't mention, even a few that I really like. I might come back and update this post with my thoughts on them as well. If anyone objects to my states negatives or wants to add positive, I would readily welcome that.
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If your pitch for a type is essentially just "what about this mon" then I'm sorry, you need a different argument. Garganacl works because of its incredible bulk, fantastic ability, and it sports a pretty good movepool in Salt Cure, Recover, and Curse. We would have to do a lot to make mono Ghost viable. Its weaknesses are very relevant (being weak to Knock Off and Dragapult is huge), and its resistances/immunities are not that great. Normal immunity means nothing when Ursaluna does about 80% minimum with Headlong Rush (unless we give it insane physical bulk which would be quite a restraint on the stats stage), and while the Fighting immunity is a bit easier to actualize, there are other types that resist Fighting that offer more. Besides, Fighting types have ways around it (Zamazenta has Crunch, Iron Valiant has Knock Off, Sneasler can do some nasty stuff with Dire Claw).

I didn't mean to sound harsh, but I figured you had a right to know why Mono Ghost doesn't work instead of being ignored and wondering why it wasn't slated.
I know mono ghost is not the best type to have in the CAP meta. But what I thought was if Garganacl is able to do well in a meta that has Great Tusk, Heatran, Landorus, Sneasler, Roaring Moon, etc., then I thought it could be possible to make a mono ghost type work in the CAP meta. Which includes it having a good movepool, ability, and stats.
I know mono ghost is not the best type to have in the CAP meta. But what I thought was if Garganacl is able to do well in a meta that has Great Tusk, Heatran, Landorus, Sneasler, Roaring Moon, etc., then I thought it could be possible to make a mono ghost type work in the CAP meta. Which includes it having a good movepool, ability, and stats.
You're still using the line of reasoning of "look at Garganacl that proves we can make it not bad!" when you should be using the line of reasoning of "how well does this typing match into the meta?" Mono Ghost can work if we give it good moves/stats/abilities, that much is true. But this would put extra restraint on the process, and force us to try to make up for our flaws (for which mono Ghost has plenty) at almost every turn, which might lead to just throwing everything it could ever want in every stage, which does not make for an interesting process. You've yet to make a post on why mono Ghost is worth it over other types, but your entire argument is Garganacl comparisons. This is the last post I will make on the subject to avoid derailing the thread.
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